As-Salāmu Alaykum Wa Rahmatullahi Wabarakathuhu

May the Peace, Mercy and Blessings of God be upon you beautiful people

"Truth has (now) arrived, and Falsehood perished: for Falsehood is (by its nature) bound to perish." [Qur'an 17:81]

Sunday, 27 July 2008

Allegation that the Quran says the earth is flat

Regarding the allegation which is commonly made against the Quran, where websites and youtube videos allege the Quran says the earth is flat. The Quran does not say the world is flat.

Once again the allegation:

The Quran says that Allah has made the earth for you as a carpet. This gives an indication that the earth is flat. Does this not contradict established modern science?

1. Earth made as a carpet

The question refers to a verse from the Qur’an in Surah Nuh:
"And Allah has made the earth for you as a carpet (spread out)." The Holy Qur'an, Chapter 71, Verse 19

But the sentence in the above verse is not complete. It continues in the next verse, explaining the previous verse. It says: "That ye may go about therein, in spacious roads." The Holy Quran, Chapter 71, Verse 20

A similar message is repeated in Surah TaHa:

"He Who has made for you the earth like a carpet spread out; has enabled you to go about therein by roads (and channels)...." The Holy Quran, Chapter 20, Verse 53

The surface of the earth i.e. earth’s crust is less than 30 miles in thickness and is very thin as compared to the radius of the earth which is about 3750 miles. The deeper layers of the earth are very hot, fluid and hostile to any form of life. The earth’s crust is a solidified shell on which we can live. The Quran rightly refers to it like a carpet spread out, so that we can travel along its roads and paths.

2. Carpet can also be spread on other than an absolute flat surface

Not a single verse of the Quran says that the earth is flat. The Quran only compares the earth’s crust with a carpet. Some people seem to think that carpet can only be put on an absolute flat surface. It is possible to spread a carpet on a large sphere such as the earth. It can easily be demonstrated by taking a huge model of the earth’s globe covering it with a carpet.

Carpet is generally put on a surface, which is not very comfortable to walk on. The Quran describes the earth crust as a carpet, without which human beings would not be able to survive because of the hot, fluid and hostile environment beneath it. The Quran is thus not only logical, it is mentioning a scientific fact that was discovered by geologists centuries later.

3. Earth has been spread out

Similarly, the Quran says in several verses that the earth has been spread out.

"And We have spread out the (spacious) earth: how excellently We do spread out!" The Holy Quran, Chapter 51, Verse 48

Similarly the Quran also mentions in several other verses that the earth is an expanse:

"Have We not made the earth as a wide expanse. And the mountains as pegs?" The Holy Quran, Chapter 78, Verse 6-7

None of these verses of the Quran contain even the slightest implication that the earth is flat. It only indicates that the earth is spacious and the reason for this spaciousness of the earth is mentioned. The Quran says:

"O My servants who believe! truly. spacious is My Earth: therefore serve ye Me –(And Me alone)!"

The Holy Quran, Chapter 29, Verse 56
Therefore none can give the excuse, that he could not do good and was forced to do evil because of the surroundings and circumstances.


4. Earth is geospherical in shape

The Quran mentions the actual shape of the earth in the following verse: "And we have made the earth egg shaped". The Holy Quran, Chapter 79, Verse 30

The "dahu" in the Arabic Language means to extend and even out. It is said: "daha" the thing; "yad'hu dahwan". These terms can mean he either evened out and extended it or he threw it and rolled it. It is also said: "the rain daha the stones from the face of the earth," which means it rolled it and washed it away. It is also said: "The horse passed by yad'hu dahwan," which means he is beating his foot on the ground and yad'hu its sand. Also, the ostrich's mad'hi means its laying of its eggs, and "ad'hiha" is the nest where its chicks are born.

So as we clearly see, all of the above Arabic words that are derived from "daha" mean:
1- To extend.
2- To roll.
3- To even out.
4- Causing to become egg-shaped or creating, making or producing eggs (see the ostrich's mad'hi example above).

The meanings all derive from the root word in arabic, there is nothing wrong with applying all the meanings especially amazing in this situation seeing as they are all true. Arabic is a rich language and words usually have more then one meaning

The Arabic word dahaha in Noble Verse 79:30 above did have multiple meanings and uses. One of them was when one refers to an ostrich egg. Another was when referring to making something extended, spread out, stretched and/or expanded. This is an example of how Allah Almighty uses scientific notions in the Noble Quran when He talked about how He created certain things. He gave words that had multiple meanings and interpretations to them to make the Noble Quran truly be for all times and all places, and show it has deeper meanings. The meanings unravel more and more as scientific discoveries increase

The shape of the earth being similar to an oblate spheroid [ Also according to Wikipedia: "The Earth's shape is very close to an oblate spheroid—a rounded shape with a bulge around the equator—although the precise shape (the geoid) varies from this by up to 100 metres (327 ft)."

Eggs can be described as prolate spheroids, ovate spehroids or oblate spheroids. The fact is the word used in the Quran has particular root link to an ostrich egg

We are specifically observing an Ostrich egg which does resemble an Oblate Spheroid and NOT Prolate Spheroid. More over technical labeling is irrelevant since these are invented modern names that we ascribe to the earth. How would it make sense for God to describe the earth as an 'Oblate spheroid' 1400 years ago? Even if God were to describe the Earth as simply 'round' it would be incorrect. Describing the Earth as resembling an ostrich egg is very significant and precise as it was not only unique at the time but is still accurate and visually relevant

Thus its not just a case of bad translation, the words in arabic have multiple meanings and all cant be used at once however deeper analysis do show that all the meanings are accurate. This however is not likely to convince the non muslim who most probably thinks the muslims are stretching it abit and using words they want to use, which is their choice and is fair enough. But to say the verses are irrelevant is incorrect, they certainly have some merit


Thus the allegation is untrue, the Quran and modern established science are in perfect harmony.

And please if you prefer videos, check out the following:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5HR5FcRDPbg&feature=related


Why does the Quran not go into detail about the crust?

The Quran is a book of science. The Quran does not need to go into detail about the crust, all we have to do is show that what it is saying does not go against established science. If the Quran gave scientific measurements and details about every little issue, it would be a million times bigger then it is and not be fit the the purpose it was revealed.

The description given was emphasising a certain point regarding the way the surface of the earth is vast and spread out, for which it uses the term carpet. This is clear from the context provided. The Quran then goes onto clarify the actual shape of the earth as being egg shaped. Both are clear, and not against established science. So if you read the whole Quran, and the particular verses in question it will be clear to you that in one part the surface is being referred to and in the other the shape of the earth is given, both put together or looked at seperatly are correct. Simple deduction will lead you to this.

The verses did not need to go into great deal about the intimate details because as i said it is not a book of science. The descriptions and words were made so they would be easy for the people of the time to understand, and be easy for us to understand today. This again is clear by virtue of the fact that the verses do not contradict any established scientific fact.

There is an allegation that the Quran copied from the greeks regarding this issue for some reason, we may aswell look at this claim even though there is no real evidence to support this allegation

Around 250 BC, the Greek mathematician Eratosthenes came to the conclusion that the earth was spherical. The actual fact however based on scienctific research is that the earths shape is oblate spheroid, which is a rotationally symmetric ellipsoid having a polar axis shorter than the diameter of the equatorial circle. Hence the earth is not a sphere, as was put forward by the greeks.

If what the anti islamists say is true, and Muhammad wrote the Quran and copied the greeks - why would he not actually copy what they said? I mean to say, surely he would also have written the earth is a sphere shape. In actual fact if we look at the Quran, it states the shape of the earh is egg shaped and not a sphere. The Quran mentions the actual shape of the earth in the following verse: "And we have made the earth egg shaped". The Holy Quran, Chapter 79, Verse 30

The shape of an egg being oblate spheroid, just like the earth. This clearly proves that the Quran did not copy from the greeks, because if it had it would have said the same thing, and not corrected the mistake the greeks had made. This information is not from the greeks, but is from the creator himself.

86 comments:

wheatington said...

With such a head start on us Infidels in science, your lands must be technological paradises. Why not explain to us impoverished Westerners the wonders we would find in the Islamic countries, like Saudi, Somalia, Afghanistan, and Mali?

Leviathon said...

This blog is about Islam and it's scriptures and the information coming from that, it has nothing to do with politics. What Islam teaches and what Muslims do in todays world are two different things. Just because a country has Muslims residing in it, does not make it an Islamic country. There is no Islamic state on the face of the planet that is run according to the authentic teachings of Islam. Peace.

wheatington said...

Leviathon
What are the principles of Islam? And on what are those principles based?

Leviathon said...

A small question with a big answer. Principles in short: We have a creator, we have a purpose in life, the creator has sent down guidance for us to follow in order to achieve this purpose, life is a test and our aim is to gain eternal life in paradise/heaven. The source of these principles are the authentic Islamic sources; the Quran and the way of the prophet (sunnah). In order for a full and complete answer to this and many other questions, please take the time to visit www.time4truth.com which approaches the issue from a objective and hollistic standpoint. Peace.

wheatington said...

Leviathon
Those principles do not distinguish Islam. Christians are commanded to be like Jesus. Muslims commanded to be like Mohamed. Where do Muslims learn about the life of Mohamed? Is the Koran full of universal knowledge?

wheatington said...

Leviathon
So Muslims are required to act as Mohamed did? Is that correct? I know Christians are commanded to be Jesus. Of course, Muslim do not believe in the Deity of Jesus. or they would be Christians!
Much of the Koran, Muslims tell me is only meant to pertain to the times of Mohamed. I thought it was a universal guide for all times.

Leviathon said...

I never said it ditinguishes from christianity, tho there is a massive difference between the two. We do not see Jesus as God, or the son of God or the part of a trinity. So in that sense there is a difference when we are told to try and follow the example of Muhammaed, we are told to follow example of all prophets and messengers and those who are righteous in the way of God. Although overall in a general since we believe all religion is from God, but as time passed it was changed and corrupted so the main principles will always be the same on the whole. Islam we believe to be the latest and final revelation of that one true faith.

As mentioned we learn about the prophet from the traditions/sunnah which is the authentic hadith. I dont understand what you mean by universal knowledge so i cant answer that question. Once again i would suggest you please visit www.time4truth.com in your spare time and try and go through the site in section order. I am by no means trying to fob you off, but i believe something you read yourself in your own time is better than me preaching at you. Regardless i am here to answer any questions you have. Peace.

wheatington said...

Leviathon
The sahih Bukhari hadith tells of Mohamed beheading Jews after the Battle of the Trench. Tabari and sahih Muslim also document the incident. After the beheading of 600-900 Jews and dividing their property as war booty (Mohamed later claimed Allah revealed the rules for the spoils of war: See Koran Chapter 8) he bedded a 15 year old he had forced to watch her husband's death.
How can you argue that these are the actions of a man worth following?

Leviathon said...

As you can see, the topic you are commenting on is about the allegation that the Quran saying the earth is flat. This is why i was urging you to go and read the website. If you had bothered to take my advice or check the rest of the blog, there is an article on the allegations you make. So i would suggest you go have a read of the refutation, and then leave any appropriate comments beneath. I like to have some order on this blog and therefore will have to delete any comments that are not on topic, and any repetitive posts which ignore my requests. Thank you. Peace.

Anonymous said...

Leviathon, great article! It made a lot of sense now that in Quran earth is alleged as a carpet..

Earth do have a crust to cover its volatile insides to enable us to live on its surface.. just like a carpet which is normally used to cover lousy surface. I never would have thought of that myself! Thanks!!

Anonymous said...

Yes, indeed! The earth initially was like a meteorite (The Big Bang theory). Any meteorite as time passes loses some mass and becomes more and more like a sphere. But no planet or meteorite has a carpet,(with great oceans, beautiful flowers and any kind of plants on it, isn't it like a carpet?also with roads on it)as our earth does. ALLAH covered a piece of the initial matter, which exploded during the Big bang, with such a carpet that is unique to serve all animals and plants. And after all, is it possible that a 'carpet' with such connections (ex. Photo synthesis, plants that are food for some other animals etc.) has no Creator. If it has, then why he created? He wanted to test his creations. how we know it? HE informed us through His messengers. And the Qur'an is the verifying book. IT VERIFIes and corrects the changes(made by people, in political aims) of the books sent down earlier(evangeline, zabur and toorat). Allah said to worship only Him Alone, so let us do it together!

wheatington said...

The Big Bang Theory has been refuted by data gathered by the Hubble Telescope. Again, you Muslim barrows are behind the times.

asjey said...

Even if the theory is refuted. It is proved that the universe is expanding and every part of it is constantly moving(NOBLE prize, 2012) and that a meteorite moves and loses weight. Allah covered a rough surface of a matter with a carpet. Kul ya ayyuhal kafiruun: lâ a'budu mâ ta'budun. Wa lâ antum 'abuduna mâ a'bud.wa lâ ana 'abidum ma 'abattum. Wa lâ antum 'abuduna mâ a'bud. LAKUM DINUKUM WA LIYA DIN!

wheatington said...

Why aren't Muslims winning Nobel Prizes? With the head start you claim to have, you should all have flush toilets by now.

Leviathon said...

Nobel peace prizes and flushing toilets are hardly a standard to judge how much truth value something has, it may be sufficient for you but seems a slightly shallow simple way of looking at things. I rather people look at the sources of Islam and make up their minds based on that. Peace.

wheatington said...

We agree! I think everyone should read the Koran and the Hadiths (anecdotes of Mohamed) and the Sira (biography of Mohamed). Until I read the trinity of Islam's holy books, I thought it was just wacky like Mormonism. Wow, what a wake up call to find the Koran was full of hate, filth, and violence. But I'll let people make up their minds.

It is interesting that Muslims crow about their achievements but can't actually show any progress in the Islamic wonderlands. Why is that?

wheatington said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Leviathon said...

The achievements of Muslims in recent times or lack of in recent times can be put down to a number of different factors, none of which are discussed on this blog and nor will they be. This is not a political forum, all i will say on the issue is that muslims have made great contributions to almost every area of life and learning of which you and most others are probably aware, this alone quashes the false assumption that lack of contribution = false religion, on the contrary Islam has contributed more than any other faith arguably. I may do a post on it in the near future so stay tuned.

If you think Islam is filled with hate, filth and violence then that is your choice you can think as you please. Everyone is free to make up their own mind. Peace.

wheatington said...

You say Muslims have made a contribution but cannot state the contribution and then contend that this alone proves your contention!

This is why Muslims cannot make a contribution; you cannot think!

asjey said...

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Muslim_scientists
Leviathon, we,muslim, know that we are brothers and sisters and we just want to do what we are obliged. Our job is to warn them, but the Hearts are in God's hands. "they feel indifference(you warn them or not), so they will not believe"(36:10). Anyway the last word will be ours, maybe not in blogger but on the Day of Resurrection. And, wheatington, I offer you to try all (big) religions, try to find the true answers to the questions: why I am In this life and what is the meaning of life. And if you mean terrorism by saying 'full of cruelty'. Then you are not right. Terrorists are one of you who want to show that the Islam is a violent religion. Weren't it the Masons who sent the planes to hit the Twin Towers(NEW YORK, 11.09.2001)? Find the truth, live with some members of (big) religions for a week or two. I THINK THAT TO FIND THE MEANING OF the LIFE ONE MUST DO EVERYTHING! As-salamu- aleykum!

Leviathon said...

I didnt say i wouldnt state the contributions, i said i would not discuss the politics behind why Muslims have not contributed as much recently. Regarding what Muslims and Islam have done for the world i said i would do a post in the future but obviously you do not understand my simple words so here are some links for you to browse in the meantime:

http://salems2.tripod.com/muslim_contribution_to_the_world.html

There is also a convention that was going around the world highlighting the Islamic influence on the world we live in today. Maybe you can check it out when it comes to a city near you and correct your misconception, information can be found at:

http://www.1001inventions.com/

There is also the wikipedia page asjey mentioned in the post above.
Hope this sheds some light on the issue for you, theres plenty of reading. Peace.

Anonymous said...

Very nice blog. Islam is great indeed. There is no system, no way of life or set of conducts which compares to the vastness of Islam. Islam is the best way of life and is benefiting its millions of users (followers) all over the world in their daily lives:
1. in family system
2. business matters
3. conduct with the society

Ofcourse those who dont follow the guidelines, they need to learn alot and become good users.

Islam has worked before in different centuries while the whole world was in darkness. Muslims rose to power and did alot of work in science and mathematics. Muslims translated books from all cultures and made them public for the whole world.

Some people do like to waste time and go after too much of scientific things in Quran. They may interest advanced users (scientists) and its their business but for a common man all other features are more than enough. Quran and Hadith are a troubleshooting guide for every little problem humans can possibly face.
There is no such system on earth. Thus for your family and friends, choose Islam.

note: not mentioning any other solutions (religions, cultures) because all have failed and still fail to accomplish any order and decency in the society. Islam will master and overcome every other system out there, whether non-users(non-believers) like it or not.

wheatington said...

If no country today is truly Islamic, why not? Saudi Arabia is 100& Muslim, why hasn't it adopted this wonderful system that Muslims claim Islam to be?

When did an Islamic paradise exist?

As for the claim that Muslims translated the ancients into modern language. It simply not true. The Christian monk did n much of that from the year 100-650, well before Mohamed.

Anonymous said...

I will get into the politics for u pple who r so eager to know. Muslims main purpose in life is to atain heaven in the afterlife and therefore they r not on a course of world domination as others may be, then u have western nations which do everything in thier power to keep muslim nations from developing and advancing as they see it as a threat, regardless that is not what Muslims think about, they are more concerned about thier spititual progress and it is evident that most recent developments in tech only lead one into an expanding invitation to sin and usually into a way of creating more death and destruction. U will put effort into what u desire and all Muslims desire is heaven so that is mainly where we put our efforts tho the kafiroon may dispise us for it.

Anonymous said...

I will get into the politics for u pple who r so eager to know. Muslims main purpose in life is to atain heaven in the afterlife and therefore they r not on a course of world domination as others may be, then u have western nations which do everything in thier power to keep muslim nations from developing and advancing as they see it as a threat, regardless that is not what Muslims think about, they are more concerned about thier spititual progress and it is evident that most recent developments in tech only lead one into an expanding invitation to sin and usually into a way of creating more death and destruction. U will put effort into what u desire and all Muslims desire is heaven so that is mainly where we put our efforts tho the kafiroon may dispise us for it.

Anonymous said...

@wheatington:
The only "Islamic paradise" that ever existed was from 0-40 Hijri. This is the reign under Prophet Muhammad, and the 4 righteous Caliphs. This was when Islam conquered Byzantine Syria, Iraq, and Egypt and finished off the pagan Persian empire.

FYI at this time Heraculis(Roman Emperor) was slaughtering Jews out of fear, and Omar conquered Jerusalem and allowed them back in to worship on the Holy Temple Mount. Didn't know that did ya!?

What happened after the death of Ali is highly disputed, but in the end Muawiya gained power and the Ummayyad Empire began. It was not an elected government, but one of family monarchy. The Caliphs began to drink, fornicate, and even killed the Prophets family in this century. Many Sahabas(Companions) betrayed Islam at this point to fit the Caliphs political motives.

The slaughter of the Jews of Khaybar is mentioned in the Qur'an. It is so trivial that the Qur'an says: "some you killed, others you captured." How the hell did you get 600 people out of this? Let me guess. The first mention is in Ibn Ishaq's Sirat Ar-Rasul in which the 500 are mentioned. No copy currently survives, it was passed on via an unknown student to Ibn Hisham, and Imam Malik declared Ishaq a heretic/liar. These fables were created to justify discrimination against Jews/minorities during the Ummayad Era. Sorry, you don't have anything on Islam bro...

wheatington said...

Who said anything about Khaybar? Muslims may think that slaughter of innocents to be trivial, civilized people don't.
I referenced Badr. Sahih Bukhari tells us about it.

You are familiar with it, Mr Anonymous?

Anonymous said...

Pak citizen
Very nice work and elaboration. MashAllah.

Mullah Hamid said...

MashaALLAH

good work brother.
:)
Assalamualaikum wr wb

Anonymous said...

Hello wheatington! the writer of this blog is trying to find the very distinct point where islamic religion makes sense and I think he has done a pretty good job so far. We shouldnt be angry at eachother through our individual religions. Every religion has gone through dark times or have u forgotten the spanish inquisition my friend. Unfortunately due to the nature of people there will always be individuals who will misquote the holy scriptures so instead of being beligerent, try to understand people who have commented on this site and are trying to give u a glimpse of their own truth. And on a different note u should really look where the funding for these amazing western researchers come from. Most of it comes from the middle east and may of your prized scientists are indians , pakistanis and so on so forth, the head of nanotechnology in northwestern uni was an indian muslim, these are petty arguments that no one in this blog should make, instead lets gather together and try to grasp each and every religion to its core truth. Leviathon thank you for your patience while u r answering some of these questions. I like the way people think here.
Peace

Mert

wheatington said...

Pray tell what point of Islam, a unique point in Islam, makes sense? Islam is the codification and the glorification of the lusts of the human male. That is so because Mohamed was the WORST example of mankind ever.
Muslims can learn some knowledge from the West but they cannot understand Western values until they renounce their love of Satan, aka Allah.

Anonymous said...

Ignorance is bliss I guess :) and u threw a lot of big words in your last comment kudos to u bro! I just dont understand the reason why you are so full of hate against people who are trying to clarify the false information that u might have, they are just trying to explain to u that islam in its raw form a peacefull religion. I am sure that many atrocities were committed using islam as a means but it happened in every religion. The west has just started to apply a more mild mannered Christianity we are all very familiar with what happened in the dark ages through the use of religion. Islam just needs a little more time to weed out fundementalist thats all. Nothing can be achieved with hate Wheatington so just let go of ur hate and lets discuss anything you want in peace with the help of logic and no matter how much u despise islam and peiple who follow it, insults are not the way to make a point, it just makes u a mundane. Let us help eachother attain eachothers truths and then we can maybe find the real truth.
Peace my brother

Mert

Anonymous said...

And by the way West is just a place on the map my friend dont read to much into it. Lets take the Turkish republic for example; they are 95% muslim and they are as a country in much better shape than most european countries now. World is ever changing and it has a little to do with religion and on a different note, u should really go to istanbul maybe seeing a bit of modern islamic civilization might change ur mind plus its pretty fun :) will help you calm down a bit

wheatington said...

The hate is from Islam not me. Islam says not to befriend non-Muslims, to lie to them. Boko Haram is not a Christian mob. There is no good thing in Islam and you can't produce a verse from the Koran (an unabrogated one)which is not barbaric or stupid.
Turky(correct orthography to disambiguate from the wonderful bird), is returning to Islam and as a result is devolving into chaos. Check Egypt! Islam is a disaster, for a man, and for a country.
Awaiting the wonderful verse!

Anonymous said...

When u say devolving into chaos u mean a much higher growth rate than most countries, you are right. the caos is so unberable that it has the highest brain migration from europe in the last 20 years but our convo is not about Turkey. What I figured out is you are only here to agitate people who are peacefully discussing religious content but thats ok too. Without constant questioning you cannot achieve progress but please read the rest of this blog so u might have a better understanding of misconceptions about the religion u r so ready to hate. Also u have not adressed the points I made about Christianity and the atrocities that it has led to but thats ok I didnt expect it anyways. Peace

wheatington said...

Please post the citations for your allegations. My comments about chaos related to present day Egypt. Do you contend that country is headed in the right direction, as far a progress is concerned? I know it's headed for sharia.

wheatington said...

Regarding these supposed atrocities, what are you referring to? Are these events in the scope of Badr or Kaybar? Are these events linked to Christian doctrine? If so, please cite the New Testament verse.

Leviathon said...

Wheatingdon; Your continued attacks on Islam are both incoherent and now verging on the ridiculous. You obviously are not willing to open your mind and use reason, you have quite evidently made up your mind about Islam and now are attempting to force people to accept your warped views through mockery, which does not take much intelligence clearly.

I did warn you previously that this blog contains answers to many of your points, only if you were to check the different entries you would see the rebuttals to many of your oft repeated predictable attacks.

I also informed you that if comments not linked to the topic of the blog entry were continuously made, they would be removed.

Despite your continued breach of a simple rule, i will respond to some of your claims. Regarding your statement there are no verses in the Quran that are not barbaric, a claim so preposterous it does not even merit a response, i give you the following:


4:36

"show kindness to parents, and to kindred, and orphans, and the needy, and to the neighbour who is a kin, and the neighbour who is a stranger, and the fellow traveller, and the wayfarer, and those whom your right hands possess (slaves)"

9:60

(about giving money to the poor, etc):
"Alms are only for the poor and needy, and those who work for them, and those whose heart are to be reconciled (to be converted to Islam), and those in captivity, and those in debt, and those who are on Allah's path, and for the wayfarer."

This is not supposed an exhaustive list, rather just a simple rebuttal to your ludicrous claim. You claimed there was not a single verse that wasnt barbaric, this clearly proves otherwise.

As regards to your needless hostility towards Islam, we have the following verses for you:

25:63:

The worshippers of the All-Merciful are they who tread gently upon the earth, and when the ignorant address them, they reply, “Peace!”

28:55, And when they hear vain talk, they turn away from it and say: “To us our deeds, and to you yours; peace be to you: we do not seek out the ignorant.”

Leviathon said...

I also provide you the following examples of barbaric depravity from the Bible:

So Jesus said to them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of man and drink his blood, you have no life in you; he who eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day. For my flesh is food indeed, and my blood is drink indeed. -John 6:53-55

Don’t associate with non-Christians. Don’t receive them into your house or even exchange greeting with them. 2 John 1:10

And ye shall eat the flesh of your sons, and the flesh of your daughters shall ye eat. -- Leviticus 26:29

Suppose you hear in one of the towns the LORD your God is giving you that some worthless rabble among you have led their fellow citizens astray by encouraging them to worship foreign gods. In such cases, you must examine the facts carefully. If you find it is true and can prove that such a detestable act has occurred among you, you must attack that town and completely destroy all its inhabitants, as well as all the livestock. Then you must pile all the plunder in the middle of the street and burn it. Put the entire town to the torch as a burnt offering to the LORD your God. That town must remain a ruin forever; it may never be rebuilt. Keep none of the plunder that has been set apart for destruction. Then the LORD will turn from his fierce anger and be merciful to you. He will have compassion on you and make you a great nation, just as he solemnly promised your ancestors. "The LORD your God will be merciful only if you obey him and keep all the commands I am giving you today, doing what is pleasing to him." Deuteronomy 13:13-19

And thou shalt eat the fruit of thine own body, the flesh of thy sons and of thy daughters. -- Deuteronomy 28:53

And I will cause them to eat the flesh of their sons and the flesh of their daughters, and they shall eat every one the flesh of his friend. -- Jeremiah 19:9

"And the king said unto her, What aileth thee? And she answered, This woman said unto me, Give thy son, that we may eat him to day, and we will eat my son to morrow. So we boiled my son, and did eat him: and I said unto her on the next day, Give thy son, that we may eat him: and she hath hid her son...." (II Kings 6:28-29)

"Behold with a great plague will the LORD smite thy people and thy children, and thy wives, and all thy goods: And thou shalt have great sickness by disease of thy bowels, until thy bowels fall out by reason of the sickness day by day." (II Chronicles 21:14-15)

Shun those who disagree with your religious views. Romans 16:17

Paul, knowing that their faith would crumble if subjected to free and critical inquiry, tells his followers to avoid philosophy. Colossians 2:8

Leviathon said...

"And after all this the LORD smote him in his bowels with an incurable disease. And it came to pass, that in process of time, after the end of two years, his bowels fell out by reason of sickness: so he died of sore diseases. And his people made no burning for him, like the burning of his fathers." (II Chronicles 12:18-19)

"How shall we do for wives for them that remain?..... And the congregation sent thither twelve thousand men of the valiantest, and commanded them, saying, Go and smite the inhabitants of Jabesh-gilead with the edge of the sword, with the woman and the children. And this is the thing that ye shall do. Ye shall utterly destroy every male, and every woman that hath lain by man. And they found among the inhabitants of Jabesh-gilead four hundred young virgins, that had known no man by lying by any male; and they brought them unto the camp to Shiloh, and they gave them wives which they had saved alive of the women of Jabesh-gilead." Judges 21:7,12
"Let your fountain be blessed, and rejoice in the wife of your youth, as a long hind and a graceful doe, let her breasts satisfy you at all times." Proverbs 5:18-19

"Your stature is like a palm tree, and your breasts are like its clusters. I said, 'I will climb the palm tree. I will take hold of its fruit stalks.' Oh may your breasts be like clusters of the vine and the fragrance of your breath like apples." Song of Solomon 7:7-8

The master of that servant will come on a day when he does not expect him and at an hour he is not aware of. He will cut him to pieces and assign him a place with the unbelievers. That servant who knows his master's will and does not get ready or does not do what his master wants will be beaten with many blows. But the one who does not know and does things deserving punishment will be beaten with few blows. From everyone who has been given much, much will be demanded; and from the one who has been entrusted with much, much more will be asked. Luke 12:46-48

"And when Herod saw that he had been tricked by the magi, he became very enraged, and sent and slew all the male children who were in Bethlehem and in all its environs, from two years old and under." Matthew 2:16

Further examples murder, bloodshed, torture, depravity, incest and related sickness can be found at:
http://www.freewebs.com/christianconfusion/

Leviathon said...

I have no interest in discussing christianity, i am not here to attack anothers faith. I am here to defend Islam.

The verses from the bible are shared simply to show that you are guilty of being a hypocrite. Please do not try and explain away the verses I have the posted, this is not a forum for a discussion on christianity.

You have your beliefs and you are perfectly entitled to do so, good for you. If you want to make a blog on chritianty please do so and share it here so we may all see what you have to say.

For now, please direct all your comments to the relevant topics in the blog. If you are unable to adhere to this simple rule, then i would urge you to vent your fury elsewhere as no one is really interested in your pointless rambling, as it only brngs needless negatvity.

I respect your right to express your views, but i will delete your comments and ban you if you persist on ignoring my peaceful request. Peace.

Anonymous said...

during the golden age of islam we have created algebra and the basis for modern medicine the number zero and many more so if it wasnt for islam your dumb scientists will still be living feutal and dark ages, we were the first to have freedom of religion and the catholics would never protest the church by not being able to read the bible if they did not c all the people reading quran normally in the muslim world there would also b no protestant if it wasnt for islam so keep your foolishness to yourself and may ALLAH guide and this is just som of the many achievements after islam ALHAMDULILAH

wheatington said...

Muslims did not invent algebra. It is unfortunate that the West uses that Arabic word. Algebra is merely the universal representation of the rules of mathematics. The Greeks thousands of years before Mohamed knew many of the rules of mathematics --not calculus which had to wait nearly 4000 years for Newton.
If anyone attends the 1001 Islamic inventions you will find that some Muslim's brother said he heard a Muslim flew in a kite. That is recorded as a Muslim achievement.
But, even if all these lies were true, why are Muslims so backwards today?

Ichwanul Akbar Zulkarnain said...

wheatington, Alhamdulillah, seems that from your word your anger has wearing down a bit.
Your view to Islam has slowly changed.
Maybe some of GOD's light has come into you.

I feel sad too why some of our muslim brothers today became so fragmented and backwards.
But if you open your minds more you will find that the Islamic kindness spirit's still in their heart, even in somalian pirates.

Please watch youtube more and Politics less. Just a sugestion.

Oh by the way, you can read ghandi's view about Islam.

Sorry my english's bad. Peace.

Ichwanul Akbar Zulkarnain said...

Surely, you hit my heart hard with that.

I guess we can't change much of your opinion even we brought a library of books or millions of references.

I see that from your comment about saudi, somalia, afghan, you just see Islam in faraway places from TV or Internet? I really want you to go into a real life mosque nearest to you or an Islamic center once in a lifetime, by disguising yourself/not. And see for yourself what a real life musleem is.

If you don't want to do it then, I don't see the reason why we won't ignore your view about Islam.

And oh by the way, christian use Allah for God in Indonesia, and 'Isa Al Masih for jesus. Peace. I'm sorry if my words seems unpolite to you, this is just what I can do.
__________________________________
"I wanted to know the best of the life of one who holds today an undisputed sway over the hearts of millions of mankind.... I became more than ever convinced that it was not the sword that won a place for Islam in those days in the scheme of life. It was the rigid simplicity, the utter self-effacement of the Prophet the scrupulous regard for pledges, his intense devotion to his friends and followers, his intrepidity, his fearlessness, his absolute trust in God and in his own mission. These and not the sword carried everything before them and surmounted every obstacle. When I closed the second volume (of the Prophet's biography), I was sorry there was not more for me to read of that great life." Mahatma Ghandi, http://www.litera.co.uk/mahatma_gandhi_thoughts/

Anonymous said...

Okay, so I read some of what you wrote and then lost interest when you said the that the quran was right about the earth being egg shaped. The egg has elongated poles not shortened like the earth. Think of a soccer ball that was being pressed between you hands... that is the shape of the earth. An egg shape is the soccer ball being pulled apart. So that would mean the greeks had it closer by saying it was a sphere. anyway, posting this is stupid as I;m sure you'll find some way to prove yourself and the quran right. But if you are going to make stuff up just realize that people who actually know what math and physics are might read what you wrote and realize you are retarded.

Anonymous said...

^makes sense. Also, if socrates, plato and god forbif if EINSTIEN claimed to be a prophet, this world had been rolling in marbles by now. Imagine someone saying how e=mc^2 is gods word and whoever doesnt believe it will go to hell. What will we have done then? If quran could talk about carpets and water then it certainly couldve talked more about the stark science explicitly. Y so ambigous? Because full knowledge that time wasnt possible. Instead, quran talks about how mohammads reltions with Maria Qibtiya were perfectly fine because apparently it is more important than something as shallow as science. (A stuck muslim in a muslim world i am)

Anonymous said...

Just wish god/allah had sent prophets all over the world with the same message, most people in Amazon tribes have never heard of allah or seen any magical events. Why did all this only happen in the desert? I want to find answers in life but wherever I turn I just cant stop doubting it. Maybe like the chinese say: No doubt, no wisdom. Im glad you all have something to believe in but I think you have to admit the quran was for its region only. Eskimos, North americans and others would have a hard time believing the quran as the word of a god who seems to have forgotten that they even exist.
I know muslims that are nice people but they always look down on me because im a non muslim. I dont get it, God wouldnt want people to hate others for something they cant relate tool would he? But then again this is the god who flooded the entire world and sent plagues so maybe. I dont know. Im a good person, I dont cheat or steal and am always honest. Is this enough to get to heaven.

Leviathon said...

We do believe that messengers were sent to earth throughout time with the one true message, but as time went on these messages became corrupted. This would provide an explanation as to how all or most religions came about in the world today, many differing but all essentially having the same core values as you mentioned i.e. no cheating, stealing etc.

So in short the message has been widespread but mankind has forgotten or altered this message. As for those who may have never received the message, well God is fair and of course would not judge them by the same standards. Such people could go to heaven without even having heard of Islam.

I am sorry that people look down on you, it's certainly not a teaching of Islam. God created us all, we are all his children so we are equal. The only distinguishing factor is piety and righteousness, something I hope we can all attain in life.

I would really like to talk to you about this further if you allow, if you don't want to provide your email address on an open forum please message me on time4truth@outlook.com and we can discuss further.

Peace.

Pete Wild-Grant said...

An ostrich egg has the shape of a prolate spheroid, like all birds' eggs. Look at a photograph. It is NOT in the shape of an oblate spheroid (like the earth).

Anonymous said...

I suggest u look at this image of an istrich egg placed on a table..nothing would be closer to the shape of earth.http://www.supersizedmeals.com/food/images/articles/20070702-Scotch_Ostrich_Egg_2.jpg.oblate and the bulged at the equator. Like someone said it was meant to be a visual representation as the word geoid and oblate are pretty new and people 1400 years old would have no idea what any fancy term meant..no other description would have been better then to simply visually represent it. The haters are sour losers and I can see how he diverged to other claims after his claim of flat earth got thrown back at his face. And also the author has proved to you that you first need to go and read your own scripture before you attack others.

Anonymous said...

And also the idea of flat earth is of the bible and it clearly states that. So there you go

wheatington said...

Which verse of the Bible says that? Which verse of the Koran the world is egg shaped?

Anonymous said...

Answer to your first question.
Isaiah 11:12  12 And he shall set up an ensign for the nations, and shall assemble the outcasts of Israel, and gather together the dispersed of Judah from the FOUR CORNERS OF THE EARTH. (KJV)Revelation 7:1 1 And after these things I saw four angels standing on FOUR CORNERS OF THE EARTH, holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, nor on the sea, nor on any tree. (KJV) Job 38:13 13 That it might take hold of the ENDS OF THE EARTH, that the wicked might be shaken out of it? (KJV) Jeremiah 16:19 19 O LORD, my strength, and my fortress, and my refuge in the day of affliction, the Gentiles shall come unto thee from the ENDS OF THE EARTH, and shall say, Surely our fathers have inherited lies, vanity, and things wherein there is no profit. (KJV) Daniel 4:11 11 The tree grew, and was strong, and the height thereof reached unto heaven, and the sight thereof to the ENDS OF ALL THE EARTH:(KJV) Matthew 4:8 8 Again, the devil taketh him up into an exceeding high mountain, and sheweth him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them; (KJV) Astronomical bodies are spherical, and you cannot see the entire exterior surface from any place. The kingdoms of Egypt, China, Greece, Crete, sections of Asia Minor, India, Maya (in Mexico), Carthage (North Africa), Rome (Italy), Korea, and other settlements from these kingdoms of the world were widely distributed. 

Only a flat earth model has four corners. A spherical earth does not have any corners. I suggest you go and read your bible again.

Answer to your second question is already given by the author. Read his point number four.

All the best reading your bible from the begining to the end and understanding it properly and not only reading a select few verses

Anonymous said...

Furthermore the bible is a basphemeous book which is full of rape, murder, sex, incest and discrimination. At places it undermines God. And I have a question for you. If your narion is a christain nation why does it approve gay rights? Isnt that against your religion? My Allah forgive me but I just hope and wish the right path for you. May you be more enlightened after this debate. And debating is good of you are willing to have an open mind. EVERYTHING OFF THE INTERNET IS NOT TRUE THOUGH. THATS WHY I SUGGEST YOU DO YOUR OWN RESEARCH WITH A VERY OPEN MIND.

wheatington said...

You are apostate to call the Holy Bible blasphemous-- Mohamed said it was true. Are you ignorant of the verses or just lying?

Anonymous said...

Prophet Mohammad was refering to the true original Bible reveled to Jesus by Allah not what you read today. I believe that bible was reveled but not in todays bible you have. It has been manipulated so much that nothing is true in it but reflects whatever people liked and I dont think I have said anything wrong. Neither am I ignorant nor am I lying. The bible you have mocks god and undermines god how is it not blasphemous

Anonymous said...

Wow, most of you are so mislead and uncomfortably insecure in your own skins that you will believe in anything you read in a book to give yourself justification for your existence. If current knowledge hasn't shown you yet that, simply, there are so many scientific falsehoods and easily disprovable conjecture in EVERY SINGLE HOLY BOOK than you are just a lost cause. How anyone can believe anymore that the Earth is only 11,000 years old and that there is some mystical magician hiding somewhere above the Earth that waves a magic wand (or whatever) and makes lifeforms and planets and time and EVERYTHING just magically materialize all in the span of 6 days is beyond me. We have proven that these processes take millions and millions of years yet, no matter how much evidence you show some people, it was written in a book by slave-loving, women-hating people thousands of years ago, who never got a single fact correct, so it must be true. I just don't understand that logic, but hey, to each his/her own I guess. It seems like a very empty and useless existence to me. You could be searching your true Spiritual selves and you're all hung up on this man-made religion shit. I just don't get it.

Anonymous said...

Dear Muslims,

I appreciate you presenting your arguments but there are verses in the Qur'an for people like Wheatington:

36:10. It is the same to them whether you warn them or you warn them not, they will not believe."

Save your energy!

W/salam

Leviathon said...

Islamic teachings have never stated the world is 11 thousand years old. You assume Muslims are not spiritual, you assume so much yet you are clearly not well informed on the subject you seek to comment so freely on.

Before we make sweeping statements on anything, we should at least get our facts straight so the things we say are accurate and credible. Unfortunately i do not think that you have done the requisite research to enable a fruitful dialogue on the subject matter at hand. I have however discussed the points you raised previously with another individual not so dissimilar from yourself. Check out the discussion at the link below. I hope it answers some of your questions:

http://www.time4truth.com/debateongod.htm

peace.

Anonymous said...

Thank you kindly for this article. It helped me understand the verses about the shape of the earth (planet) and the nature of the earth (ground).

I am curious as to which two Arabic wo4rds were used back then to differentiate 'earth' (planet) and 'earth' (surface/ground) as I imagine these words were used many centuries later? Is this right or were they used since Greek times?

Thank you.

Anonymous said...

Have We not made the earth as a wide expanse. And the mountains as pegs?" The Holy Quran, Chapter 78, Verse 6-7

WE as a family did that, at a beach we spread out a large tent ground sheet, and we used PEGS to stop the wind taking it up. Guess the Arabs also did at the time of Muhammad.

Yes, all the descriptions in the Quran is of a flat earth.

Anonymous said...

A very good article and provides a lot of information on this discussion. if you open your eyes you will see the truth. Thank you for helping me see the truth and making my faith stronger

Anonymous said...

I have to take my hat off for you Mr. Anonymous on April 3 2014. Way to go making sweeping statements using mostly your own opinion and zero evidence.

Anonymous said...

I don't know what's more embarrassing, the article, or the people who have been convinced by it!

What a pathetic attempt at covering up one of many flaws of the Quran. My house doesn't have any carpets! So by your reasoning how have I not sunk into the core of the earth and been burnt alive?! A carpet couldn't support your weight let alone the entire worlds!

Ibrahim Ahmad said...

Thank you for posting this, brother. Assalamualaikum.

Ahlul Sunnah wal Jamaah said...

Why do you even believe that earth is spheroid? Just because kuffaar so called scientists says so? Search the internet about flat earth theory, it is real and do not twist Holy Quran's words in order to fit them in kuffaar belief system. Just by doing so you let yourself misled by satan. May Allah have mercy on your soul and open your eyes to see satan's great deception that is heliocentric spheroid earth LIE

Flat earth is truth, nasa lies.Praise ALLAH!

Tariq Bashir said...

أَفَلَمْ يَرَوْا إِلَى مَا بَيْنَ أَيْدِيهِمْ وَمَا خَلْفَهُم مِّنَ السَّمَاءِ وَالْأَرْضِ إِن نَّشَأْ نَخْسِفْ بِهِمُ الْأَرْضَ أَوْ نُسْقِطْ عَلَيْهِمْ كِسَفًا مِّنَ السَّمَاءِ إِنَّ فِي ذَلِكَ لَآيَةً لِّكُلِّ عَبْدٍ مُّنِيبٍ سورہ سبا آیت 9
Have they not seen to all that is before them and behind them, the Sky and the Earth? If We wished, We could cause the Earth to swallow them, or cause pieces of the sky to fall on them. In this is a sign for every obedient servant.

You can reach at any place in this world but you will see Earth before you and behind you Sky before you and behind you even in Land and Ocean. You cannot find the edges or besides or corners of earth it means the earth is round. Allah says that every person can see this sign.

Aliff Iqra said...

Effective blog. Thanks. Learn Online Quran

Unknown said...

I have to challenge the egg shape theory. The translates edited the Quran there. To rectify the mistake of the flat earth. Let's take a look...
What is going on here is that a couple of translations have attempted to translate the word dahaha to mean made egg-shaped or like an ‘ostrich egg’, but that is wrong. The attempt to justify this is to claim that the root word for dahaha is duhiya which means ostrich egg, but even that is not correct either.

In Arabic, each word must be derived from its root. The root usually consists of three letters that can be manipulated, by adding vowels, prefixes and suffixes in order to produce different words with different meanings. For example, “ka-ta-ba” (to write) is the root for many words such as kitab (book), maktaba (library), katib (author), maktoob (written), kitabat (writings), etc…

Let’s now take the word mentioned to mean egg of an ostrich, “Duhiya”. This word is not a root. It is a noun and is derived from “da-ha-wa”, the same root that the verb “dahaha” comes from. Furthermore, Duhiya does not even mean the egg of an ostrich.

To daha the earth means to spread it out, there is no egg shape here at all, and that is why most good translations correctly render it as streatched or spread.

We are right back to a flat earth once again.

Anonymous said...

Great approach - Logical and Rational
Jazak Allah

Anonymous said...

Ridiculous discussion - illogical and irrational. If allah was god and knew the world was round he/she/it would have said "the world is round" period. Saying it is a carpet is just ridiculous and proves the quran was mad made.

jeewan suranga said...

"Why I am in this life and what is the meaning of life" ....as to you muslim, your life will end at the heaven if you have lived as Alla's desire.Not only that, quaran itself inspire the followers, by saying 72 verging, at the heaven. As a Buddhism, Life is a pain, we must try to break the own life cycle in traveling from one life to new. Unfortunately, it's very rare spreading good things in this world. All people are abide by many things, they want better life not only here, even next life. that's why it's very easy to take people toward their teachings. I don't say people to come and follow my Buddha's doctrine. but it's the way of not going to the heaven but to end this life circle.

jeewan suranga said...

"Why I am in this life and what is the meaning of life" ....as to you muslim, your life will end at the heaven if you have lived as Alla's desire.Not only that, quaran itself inspire the followers, by saying 72 verging, at the heaven. As a Buddhism, Life is a pain, we must try to break the own life cycle in traveling from one life to new. Unfortunately, it's very rare spreading good things in this world. All people are abide by many things, they want better life not only here, even next life. that's why it's very easy to take people toward their teachings. I don't say people to come and follow my Buddha's doctrine. but it's the way of not going to the heaven but to end this life circle.

Ed Mck said...

Good reason for it.

I love you..NOT! said...

Becouse you are all evil retared liers..that make up false claims.But i could pray fir you to be guided towards the truth and the real light.Ore if not..then you could could get your tickets to hell realy cheap..now.Take some water with you..you will need it.Oh..and tanning lotion.😂😂😂

I love you..NOT! said...

Becouse you are all evil retared liers..that make up false claims.But i could pray fir you to be guided towards the truth and the real light.Ore if not..then you could could get your tickets to hell realy cheap..now.Take some water with you..you will need it.Oh..and tanning lotion.😂😂😂

Anonymous said...

The earth is flat by carpet it means it has corners each protected by an angel as sated in ur holy book. how does the moon follow the sun think about it.what about the weird flight patterns from southern hemisphere to northern hemisphere? don't make conjectures out of what is written clearly. look it up most explorers that try to lap the earth all reach an ice wall. after world war 2 the super powers bombed the atmosphere (firmament, sky , heaven) it is solid none can trespass it as stated in all holy books. this is whats hidden from most people. science aint what it used to be. dont bend gods words to suit your beliefs which u got from nasa which has a a flat earth logo LUL.

Anonymous said...

there is an old religious story the devil take a prophet to the highest mountain and shows him every kingdom on earth. this is not possible on a sphere.

Curtis said...

Does the Koran plainly say that the earth is spherical? If it does, please tell me where it says so. If you can, I will believe that the Koran says that the earth is a sphere. Otherwise, no.
Say what you like about carpets and eggs, but all said and done, neither carpets nor eggs are spherical. And if you roll a carpet around an sphere, you will get a cylinder, not a sphere. And while the earth is not exactly spherical in shape, it is is far far more a sphere in shape than like any egg.
You show that you see the snag in your reasoning when you write:
' However is not likely to convince the non muslim who most probably thinks the muslims are stretching it abit and using words they want to use….'
Quite right. People can square any statement with any other statement, if they stretch words enough.
This is what you are doing when you try to show that the Koran does not say the earth is flat.

Anonymous said...

May I remind you Mr.Curtis,that the Holy Qur'an is from the Almighty GOD!...and you are trying to refute HIS Words? Are you claiming that the Almighty GOD is a Liar? Repent before it's too late!

Anonymous said...

in the article you state that you have examples of Oblate shaped Ostrich eggs, but the examples are missing. I think this because you couldnt find any.. I feel sorry fir the poor lady ostrich that would had to lay them!

Morgan Miller said...

earth is it flat or round?
Flat Earth Book

Anonymous said...

What do you believe it to be

Anonymous said...

u roll a carpet at home and it became a cylinder? the earth is sphere and your home is on earth. does your carpet became cylinder on a sphere surface?

Humaun Kabir said...

I am deeply in love with every single piece of information you post here. Will be back often to read more updates!

Flat earth forum